multiple timed strikes

multiple timed strikes

Postby MadAboutArmour » 22 Jul 2017

Hi. I was wondering what the rules / thoughts are on multiple timed strikes, particularly timed air strikes.

First, is it allowable to have more than one and to mix them?

Secondly, if you can have more than one, do you have to declare them all at the same time or one after another, after the results have been worked out.

Thanks :grin:
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Re: multiple timed strikes

Postby Piers » 22 Jul 2017

You can have as many as allowed by your list selections.

You state the turn and location so they happen when they happen... But each is a separate attack so you'd resolve one after another like any attack.
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Re: multiple timed strikes

Postby wolflord » 22 Jul 2017

Before the deployment of any troops on the table you write down the target point of each Timed Strike you have bought. After deployment, but before the game starts, you write down on which turn the strikes will happen. At the start of the turn (or turns) you have noted, the shells start flying, or in the case of an Air Strike, the plane arrives and drops its bombs.

So, if you wish, for example that your two Timed Airstikes bomb a hill in the enemy deploment zone on turn 2, you write it all down and at start of turn two your planes arrives, one after another, and drop their bombs.

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Re: multiple timed strikes

Postby Zogash » 05 Sep 2017

I'm just gonna hijack this thread to ask a follow-up question regarding timed airstrikes:

How does AA fire affect a timed bomb drop? More to the point, what happens if the timed plane gets 'pinned', but not destroyed? Does it a) still drop its bombs, b) leave the table without dropping its bombs, or c) stay on the table, pinned? Timed airstrikes "require no orders and cannot be cancelled" - does this invalidate the effects of being pinned for that particular bomb run?

Here's how I understand timed airstrikes to work (assuming it's a Typhoon with 4 medium bombs):

1.)Before deployment, note location of preregistered target.
2.)Before game starts, note turn the plane arrives.
3.)At the beginning of that turn, place plane on own map border.
4.)At any point during that turn, place plane ~10" from target.
-> At this point opponent can Ambush Fire with AA-capable units.
5.a) if plane is downed: no bomb drop, 2 chits for me, none for the enemy (since plane didn't actually attack)
b) if plane is pinned: ??? (see above)
6) if plane survives unpinned: drop bombs on target, beginning with the Firing for Effect section of the Indirect Artillery Fire rules, opponents takes chit for first air attack
7)determine number of dice - 4 bombs=4 dice
8)roll 4 dice on Barrage Accuracy table
9)allocate 6s outward (direct hits)
10)allocate 2-5s outward (pinning)
11)resolve direct hits
12)resolve pinning hits
13)remove plane

Is that correct? I want to get it right in our game come friday night. :beg:
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Re: multiple timed strikes

Postby triccor2 » 06 Sep 2017

Hi
if the plane is pinned by enemy AA fire (ambush fire order), then the strike is stopped and the plane could be damaged and take hit.

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Re: multiple timed strikes

Postby Mahti » 06 Sep 2017

This is how it is worked out:

1.)Before deployment, note location of preregistered target and turn of arrival.
2.)At the beginning of that turn, place plane ~10" from target.
-> At this point opponent can Ambush Fire with AA-capable units.
3.a) if plane is downed: no bomb drop, 2 chits for me
b) if plane is pinned it aborts it's mission
4) if plane survives unpinned: drop bombs on target, beginning with the Firing for Effect section of the Indirect Artillery Fire rules, opponents takes chit for first air attack
5)determine number of dice - 4 bombs=4 dice
6)roll 4 dice on Barrage Accuracy table
7)allocate 6s outward (direct hits)
8)allocate 2-5s outward (pinning)
9)resolve direct hits
10)resolve pinning hits
11)remove plane

I'm not sure about when you need to take a chit for being under air attack. I've heard two versions of how to resolve this. First is that you take the chit when plane arrives (so it's not possible to counter it with aa or anything else) second is that you take it after it has actually attacked someone. I think this would need clarification from Piers or Warwick.
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Re: multiple timed strikes

Postby Zogash » 06 Sep 2017

That does make sense. :good:

Plane destroyed by AA: no bomb drop, no chit for enemy, 2 chits for me
Plane pinned: no bomb drop, no chit for enemy, no chit for me (essentially an automatic Return to Base)
Plane unharmed: bomb drop, chit for enemy (if first air attack), plane removed afterwards

Unless someone official states otherwise, this is how we're gonna handle it. Cheers guys!
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Re: multiple timed strikes

Postby LUCASWILLEN05 » 06 Sep 2017

Piers wrote:You can have as many as allowed by your list selections.

You state the turn and location so they happen when they happen... But each is a separate attack so you'd resolve one after another like any attack.


Th Luftwaffe in particular used large scale ground support attacks,Late War Soviets and Western allies did something similar (eg US/UK Cab Rank system. Certainly buying a lot of air strike missions is historically valid. However there is a points cost in doing so For example, taking the Afrika Korps list in Tobruk as an example (as I have it to hand) a timed JU-87 strike costs 15 points. 10 or 20 of these would cost 150 and 300 points respectively and those points would not be available for other missions

Personally I would only consider 10 or 20 timed airstrikes in a battalion level game an at that level I am certainly going to be using 6mm :grin:

The other issue is coordinating the timed air attack with ground forces. If the ground forces are too case they might get hit by the air strike. Too soon and the physical/morale effects of an air attack on that scale.

Speaking of which, for a large and intense air strike I might suggest drawing one or two additional BR counters to simulate the morale effects of such a large attack. You might also have the air attacks coming in waves of, say, 4 - 8 aircraft per turn. This is best agreed at the start of the game.
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Re: multiple timed strikes

Postby Piers » 06 Sep 2017

You'd have to have alot of artillery and command units in order to legally buy 20 timed strikes by the lists...

Zogash you have it right.

Always keep some AA on Ambush...
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Re: multiple timed strikes

Postby Treadwell » 06 Sep 2017

To buy this many you would need to have purchased the same number of choices from Forward HQ units HQ or Artillery units. Let us say you went for the cheapest option purchased 20 wire teams (7pts in 1943 panzer div lists ) 140pts + 20 Timed Fw190 strikes at 5 points each 100pts. You buy a Grenadier squad as the minimum of infantry at 26pts
that is 266pts pts but only 2BR - good luck! :roll: - You had better hope nothing survives that bombardment with the capacity to pick off 4 Grenadiers. Also I don't think we would be playing each other again ;) :grin:
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Re: multiple timed strikes

Postby Brodir » 07 Sep 2017

:lol: :lol:

I'd love to face that army... 2 BR and loads of 2 man infantry teams everywhere. Given that in almost all scenarios everything doesn't start on the table, the Germans play needs to survive long enough to have targets for those aircraft, or drop a lot of bombs on part of the enemy force. When the reserves arrive he'd be in trouble...

it isn't that you can't do it with army lists, its just won;t work... the BR system makes sure of that.
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Re: multiple timed strikes

Postby Mahti » 07 Sep 2017

I think Lucas was referencing to big battalion level games. Getting 10 timed airstrikes is certainly possible then. We have sometimes used loads of timed barrages on big games and it really allows you to force a breakthrough in small part of a line. I see no reason why you couldn't try to do the same with aircraft although they are more vulnerable way of doing it.
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Re: multiple timed strikes

Postby LUCASWILLEN05 » 07 Sep 2017

This would only be possible where players have agreed to use multiple battle groups in a big 3000+ points battalion game or are gaming a historical scenario. Such a large game will very likely be using 6mm/10mm figures or a very large playing area.

Normally I do not game such large actions on a club night - this sort of thing is likely to b a full day multiplayer affair.
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