Honved 1944

Honved 1944

Postby Olivier » 04 Aug 2017

Image

I've got several excellent Shell hole scenics Hungarian figs and would like to field them in a couple of scenarii alongside germans and against... russians..

I intended to use the 1941 Hungarian Army list without AT rifles and replacing most of the support weapons with german ones, adding Pzfausts...

Keeping them r for the "crack" units or i for the rest.

the Arrow cross militia would use the Volkssturm ODB.

in terms of vehicles i suppose i can use StugIII and forget the Toldi and other exotic vehicles?

your opinion? advices?

Would be great to have a late war Hungarian Army list....
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Re: Honved 1944

Postby hincmar » 04 Aug 2017

IBG are releasing some really interesting Hungarian tanks - the Toldo, Zrinyi and Turan 1 are out, soon to be followed by the Turan 2 and Nimrod, I believe. I have the first three kits and they are excellent.

You can certainly also chuck in a Stug or two. They definitely had them. I've also seen pictures here and there of Italian AFV's in and around Hungarian formations, so my force (when I eventually get round to building it) will also include a few of the Italeri tanks (M13-40, 75/18).

By way of reading material, I would recommend this book. Seems to be the only one of its kind on the subject. albeit it may be hard to find now.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/MAGYAR-STEEL-H ... B0017TCTD4

Thanks for the tip off about the Shell Hole Scenics' figures. I have been contemplating whether to get some of those but wasn't sure about the quality. As there is no other "game in town", I'll put in an order.
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Re: Honved 1944

Postby DonFabrizio » 04 Aug 2017

Olivier, there is also the Osprey on the tanks of the armour of the various Eastern European armies. It's a really nice introduction.
https://ospreypublishing.com/tanks-of-h ... es-1941-45
Lots of options for the Hungarians: home-made tanks, German Stugs and Hertzers, but also some captured Soviet Lend and lease M3 stuarts:)
@ Hincmar: yes, the shellhole scenics Hungarians are quite nice.
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Re: Honved 1944

Postby gebhk » 04 Aug 2017

You may well have these already, however just in case, as well as the above Magyar Steel, I would suggest for background and organisation:
Bernard & Kliment. Magyar warriors. Helion & Co Ltd, 2015-16 (2 volumes)
Niehorster. The Royal Hungarian Army, 1920-1945. Axis Europa Books, 1998 (Volume 1)
For figure painting:
Baczoni & Toth. Ungarische militar-uniformen/ Hungarian Army uniforms. Huniform Books, 2010
Vehicles:
Attila,Sarhidai & Winkler. A Magyar Kiralyi Hondveseg Fegyverzete, Zrinyi Kiado (can't find a date, 1990s I think)
The last is a goldmine on Hungarian tanks, softskins and airplanes - in a sort of Janes format. Unless you speak/read Hungarian you will need a dictionary, but due to the format it is easy to understand with one. Some production data are given, so you can estimate likely proportions.

Later German AFVs you could use include: Marder 2 (SdKfz 231) (obtained 5 in 1942), Pz III ausf M (10 in 1942 + 10-12 in 1944), Pz IV F1 (10 in 1942); Pz IV F2 (10 in 1942); Pz IV H (12+30+ in 1944, 30+ in 1945); Panther G (5-10 in 1944); Tiger I E (12 in 1944 + ? in 1945); Stug III (10 in 1942); Stug III G (50 in 1944); Hetzer (75 in 1944 + 75 in 1945 - however there is a footnote I need to decode :ugeek: ). This suggests Hetzers were the most likely German-suupplied armour to be seen in the Magyar ranks, closely followed by Pz 4 Hs and then Stug 3 Gs.

The Germans also supplied small numbers (<10) of Pz Is and 2s in 1942, though I doubt these would have been in use in significant numbers by 1944. Also in 1942, they supplied 108 Pz 38(t), 15 Hotchkiss H35/39 and 2 Somua S-35.

Italian tanks were 150 Fiat Ansaldo supplied in 1935/36. I doubt much of this would have been in in frontline service by 1944.

Circa 279 Turan I and II were delivered 1942-44, 40 Zrinyi and 80 Toldi in 1943 plus 9 Toldi and 31 Zrinyi in 1944 (plus other odds and sods in quantities <10) so, relatively speaking, I would suggest the home-grown vehicles were no more exotic than German-supplied stuff.

Best wishes and good luck!
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Re: Honved 1944

Postby not bing » 06 Aug 2017

Every thing that gebhk said but bear in mind that most of the German vechs supplied in 1942 were lost following the stalingrad defeat with some surviving vechs returned to the Germans. Some of the Fiat's were used by police units into 1945. Also I have a spare copy of magyar steel.
Second that on shellhole figs I have loads.
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Re: Honved 1944

Postby gebhk » 06 Aug 2017

Totally agree. As I understand it, Hungarian AFV production plummeted in 1944, because the relevant factories were taken over by the Germans for other production. In return, the Germans again started to supply their ally with armoured vehicles. Overall, therefore, there was around a two year gap during which most of the older equipment would have been lost or worn out (even if Stalingrad hadn't happened - as you quite correctly say that was the final nail in the coffin). That was why I was suggesting Hetzers, PZ IV Hs and Stug IIIGs were more likely candidates for a 1944+ army than the earlier models and other foreign acquisitions (which also included ex-Polish TKSs and Reault 35's). As an aside, I believe Polish Sokol 1000 motorcycles acquired in 1939, still have cult status among Hungarian antique motorcycle collectors ;) .

Might be worth adding that the license-built MAVAG 40mm Bofors AA guns were used with radar fire control (quite possibly a world first) making Hungarian AA gunnery particularly lethal.

If I was ever persuaded to build a 'what if' post 1945 army, I think I would go with the Hungarians - TAS tanks, Hunting TAS tank destroyers, upgraded Zrinyi and Turan II tanks, Lehel APCs (based on Nimrod) and one or two other goodies. Alas my Hungarian army is a March 1939 one so my Madyar Steel consists of a few CV33s and a Lanchester armoured car :cry:
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